June 7, 2007
$611 Million Later and Still Getting Screwed
Though the Washington Nationals are well into their third season in the District and moving into their second year under the ownership of Ted Lerner, fans have had plenty to complain about -- the team's record, concessions at RFK and the $611 million stadium debacle. With yesterday's announcement of a new ticket pricing scheme for the team's new stadium, set to open next April, add one more gripe to the list.
Prices for the stadium's best seats are set to rival those of better teams, topping out at $400 per game for front-row spots behind home plate. Seats in the next row up will go for $300, while the 1,800 seats in the next level up will come in at $150. Each of the 66 luxury boxes will retail at $150,000 per season. But it's not the region's well-to-do that are complaining about the costs -- it seems to be everyone else.
While the Post's Marc Fisher didn't seem to be too put off by the price jumps, blogger My Brain Says Rage was quick to respond to the pricing plan, arguing in no uncertain terms that partial season ticket holders were getting screwed. He wrote:
Tickets in the outfield will be $29 a game for partial season ticket holders like myself. No, that is not a typo. That is a price nearly double the gate price at Comerica park and a real slap in the face to those of us that have made the outfield our home in the three seasons here. Bizarrely, the deeper you go into center field, the pricier it gets.
Our own Jeff Beam had pretty much the same to say, writing:
My concern is for the middle-of-the-road folks like me (and 19,000 other stiffs that show up at RFK regularly out of genuine dedication to the team and to the game) that get hosed. My four seats, which cost $14 today, are going up to $20 in the new stadium - $1000 over the half-season package for the four! And they're not even as good as my current seats!And just by looking at the seating chart of the new stadium as compared to RFK's, the total number of cheap seats seems to have decreased.
Fisher argues that because of the stadium's new set-up, it'll actually be the big-spenders getting screwed. After taking a recent tour of the stadium, he says the main concourse will offer views rivaling those of the best seats in the house. But that may not mollify the regulars, much less when Team President Stan Kasten is quoted as saying:
We want to make the most money we can. We want to have as many customers there. We want to make the stadium as good as it can be, which costs money. And we want to have the best team we can have, which costs money. And we want to do all of this while also keeping our game affordable.Given that the city has put up the money for the stadium and the team's payroll is among the lowest in baseball, it certainly feels like Lerner is more concerned with making money than he is with offering an affordable experience.
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I hope they do make money, I want them to feel that they can afford to field a top 5 revenue competitive team. Still, the city payed for this park, and no one expects them to be very good next year at all, so while I would have been shocked if they had not raised prices there is no reason to charge Yankees or Red Sox prices when you don't have Yankees or Red Sox quality, on the field or off.
I hope they do make money, I want them to feel that they can afford to field a top 5 revenue competitive team. Still, the city payed for this park, and no one expects them to be very good next year at all, so while I would have been shocked if they had not raised prices there is no reason to charge Yankees or Red Sox prices when you don't have Yankees or Red Sox quality, on the field or off.
Huh. This team is a piece of shit, and they think that they can charge these kinds of prices? It's as if that horrible garage band down the block started selling demo CD-Rs for $20. Yeah, right...
Huh. This team is a piece of shit, and they think that they can charge these kinds of prices? It's as if that horrible garage band down the block started selling demo CD-Rs for $20. Yeah, right...
Hi DCist, thanks for linking up My Brain Says Rage, we are both big fans of your site.
Fisher is just painfully and stupidly wrong on this one. First off, it is not "A deal" to go to a Nationals game. Its an expense I endure because I enjoy baseball. After 15 bucks of parking, 7 dollar beers and sausages, multiplied by two (or more) people, ticket prices have been the least of the expenses for a game.
In the new stadium, now they are an equal worry. Simply put, I can afford 100 bucks a year for 20 games. I cannot afford 600 a year for the same seats.
I'm glad that Fisher would encourage the 40000 some odd fans to all congregate in the concourse near the best seats, but honestly, how long do you think that will last? Ushers will be shooing people away all game.
I guess Fisher likes the design and that is fine. I hope he enjoys the Post's comp tickets.
Hi DCist, thanks for linking up My Brain Says Rage, we are both big fans of your site.
Fisher is just painfully and stupidly wrong on this one. First off, it is not "A deal" to go to a Nationals game. Its an expense I endure because I enjoy baseball. After 15 bucks of parking, 7 dollar beers and sausages, multiplied by two (or more) people, ticket prices have been the least of the expenses for a game.
In the new stadium, now they are an equal worry. Simply put, I can afford 100 bucks a year for 20 games. I cannot afford 600 a year for the same seats.
I'm glad that Fisher would encourage the 40000 some odd fans to all congregate in the concourse near the best seats, but honestly, how long do you think that will last? Ushers will be shooing people away all game.
I guess Fisher likes the design and that is fine. I hope he enjoys the Post's comp tickets.
I would imagine that the line graph of raising ticket prices vs. number of people that stop going to games looks a lot different here than somewhere like Detroit.
I would imagine that the line graph of raising ticket prices vs. number of people that stop going to games looks a lot different here than somewhere like Detroit.
Hi DCist, thanks for linking up My Brain Says Rage, we are both big fans of your site.
Fisher is just painfully and stupidly wrong on this one. First off, it is not "A deal" to go to a Nationals game. Its an expense I endure because I enjoy baseball. After 15 bucks of parking, 7 dollar beers and sausages, multiplied by two (or more) people, ticket prices have been the least of the expenses for a game.
In the new stadium, now they are an equal worry. Simply put, I can afford 100 bucks a year for 20 games. I cannot afford 600 a year for the same seats.
I'm glad that Fisher would encourage the 40000 some odd fans to all congregate in the concourse near the best seats, but honestly, how long do you think that will last? Ushers will be shooing people away all game.
I guess Fisher likes the design and that is fine. I hope he enjoys the Post's comp tickets.
FANTASTIC title for this entry, Martin.
My wife and I listen to the games on the radio. It's fun and free (for now.)
I believe the total number of seats period have diminished, not just the cheap ones. And the views from the cheapies in the new stadium will be much better than the ineffective bowl shape of RFK. And the owner should charge whatever makes the most money as the team is building from scratch. Without a salary cap, baseball teams really can turn around in no time by intelligent spending and acquisition. Without revenue, that won't happen. And there's a certain hilarious arrogance in someone that complains that their season ticket package price will go up. Here's an idea - buy fewer tickets. No one's forcing you to attend 20 or 40 or 80 games. If someone else steps in where you drop off, then the prices are justified. If not, they'll recalculate prices next year to maximize patronage.
I would imagine that the line graph of raising ticket prices vs. number of people that stop going to games looks a lot different here than somewhere like Detroit.
I like to propose some kind of performance discount. Obviously they are pricing the team as an elite pennant contender…ok fine I can live with that. However we should expect some kind of discount if they fail to perform to expectations: Lets say 2nd place a 5% discount, 3rd 10%, 4th 20% and Last 30%. I think that’s fair and a perfect incentive for the team to win.
FANTASTIC title for this entry, Martin.
My wife and i listen to the games on the radio. It's fun and free (for now.)
More garbage from Austermuhle.
80 years from now when the Nationals are beloved with a great history like the Cubs, Red Sox, and, er, Redskins no one will be counting how much money the city had to front (just finance, not pay for).
Is there an echo in this thread? Yeesh...
No one is stating the obvious ... it's a brand new stadium! It'll be the best stadium in baseball. The main reason I don't go to many games now is because the stadium SUCKS.
And for the poster talking about the Yankees and Red Sox ... Yankees suck this year! Should their ticket prices come down? You pay for the experience, not for the quality of the team.
So the Caps are one of the worst teams in their leage, and ticket prices top out at $240, less if purchased as season tickets. The Nats are one of the worst teams in their league, got the city to build them a new stadium, and want people to pay $400 to watch a game that moves at the pace of drying paint? What the fuck planet do the owners of this team live on? At least the Yankees can justify those kind of prices—they have to pay an all-star team, but the Nats are all horrible and don’t get paid shit!
I’m guessing that the shitty Nats attendance numbers of 2006/7 will pale in comparison to how few Nats fans show up for 2008.
So the Caps are one of the worst teams in their leage, and ticket prices top out at $240, less if purchased as season tickets. The Nats are one of the worst teams in their league, got the city to build them a new stadium, and want people to pay $400 to watch a game that moves at the pace of drying paint? What the fuck planet do the owners of this team live on? At least the Yankees can justify those kind of prices—they have to pay an all-star team, but the Nats are all horrible and don’t get paid shit!
I’m guessing that the shitty Nats attendance numbers of 2006/7 will pale in comparison to how few Nats fans show up for 2008.
I think the $400 figure is a bit of a red herring. No one posting here on this board is in the market for those seats, but they'll still be sold. Same with the $300 seats. Various businesses will buy those pretty much no matter what. Yes outfield prices are going up but those are going to be vastly improved seats (like you will actually be able to tell when someone hits a homerun, by means other than eveyone else's reaction). There still seem to be a fair number of $20 and less seats, obviously not in the numbers of RFK and somewhat more expensive but it will be a nice new ball park. I liken it to every game now is a premium game (which I hope they get rid of). Sure a little more expensive, but probably won't stop you from going.
CDTrave:
Actually, the upper deck seats will be quite a bit farther from the action at the new stadium than at RFK. This is due to the luxury and club seat levels that displace the upper deck above and behind the suites. At RFK, the overhang actually gets the fans closer to the action, even with the bowl shape (and obviously not including the seats in the uppermost rows of the upper deck, or those in center field which will not even exist in the new stadium).
natsfan wrote: 80 years from now when the Nationals are beloved with a great history like the Cubs, Red Sox, and, er, Redskins no one will be counting how much money the city had to front.
80 years from now, history will have repeated itself with two more publicly-funded baseball stadiums (not to mention at least one soccer, one football, and one more arena) extorted from the city. No matter that the previous two will have failed to justify any public investment, that the residents would rather have investment in areas of need, or that the owners are double-digit billionaires. But at least the elected city leaders will get a free suite as a kickback.
Tired of people pissing and moaning about tix prices. If you don't like them, nobody's holding a gun to your head to go. You can still afford to go to the game, there are plenty of affordable, what look to be decent seats in the upper deck. It's a NEW STADIUM people. The (real) fans who are going to the games this year like myself, will be there.
2 things
First off, who knows where this team will be in 80 years, but history is not on DC's side. Remember, this is round 3 in DC's attempt to keep a Major League Baseball team and like it or not, the success or failure of this effort lies with Northern Virginia. It was the growth of Northern Virginia that got DC a team by allowing Williams to make the argument that the DC area of today is not the same as it was the last time MLB tried its hand here.
Second, the day the new stadium opens, it will not be in the top 5 or possibly even top 10 of Major League stadiums. This stadium is, believe it or not, being built on the cheap and many of the "luxury features" have been "value engineered" out to save money. It will be better than RFK, but not as nice as what has recently been built in Millwaukee, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc. Once the 2 new NY stadiums open in 2009, forget about it, the new Nationals stadium will be a joke compared to what they will have built.
I don't like your writing style.
This is just the typical "Martin blowing hot air" article. Much ado about nothing again.
I like going to Nats games and a new stadium is better for all concerned. Give things a chance before you start bashing them!
While the city has indeed fronted the $$ for the new Nats' ballpark, it's not as if the team just gets to play there for free. They have to rent back the park from the city, and that cost has to be paid. I would love to hear the difference between what they pay now at RFK and what they'll pay in '08.
Also, I believe there is a ticket tax/surcharge collected by the city that is helping pay for the stadium as well. I don't think this tax exists for RFK tickets, at least at the same rate. That probably adds significantly to the increased cost of the cheaper seats.
Having said all that, my season tickets (shared with a group of folks) in section 215 behind home plate are going from $50 per seat ($45 last year), to $300 per seat. That's not just from taxes. We have been there since the first Opening Day, with 4 seats, with some of the pricier tickets in at RFK for a team that is mediocre at best, and services that are sub-par (move the Guinness taps ONE MORE TIME...) And this is the thanks we get from the Lerners and Stan Kasten?
I would like them to "Pledge their Allegiance" to the fans that supported the team from the get-go. Instead, I have to pledge my wallet to them.